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-On Humanae Vitae
-################
-
-:date: 1970-01-01T00:00:00
-:status: draft
-:category: faith
-:tags: cultureWar, Catholics, infallibility, blogComment
-
-View in discussion
-Discussion on First Things 35 comments
-Humanae Vitae | Peter M. J. Stravinskas
-mcepl
-mcepl pt8685 6 days ago
-
-Which of course is completely irrelevant. When I am talking about NFP
-I don't mean the fact that ovulating woman are less likely (on unable?)
-to conceive. I am talking about NFP as a method to find out when that
-moment is. And in that aspect I found NFP as completely unreliable.
-
-mcepl pt8685 16 days ago
-
-Yeah, that’s a good one! I will surely remember it.
-
-Fortunately for us, my wife’s cycle used to be very regular. We could
-(and we did for couple of years) do just counting days as our
-contraceptive technique, because we knew always pretty surely where we
-are in the cycle. We have tried to do NFP as well, but even though we
-knew what actually is going on in her body we were never able to do any
-head and toes from temperatures or any physical signs on her body (I
-don’t want to get into too much gory details here). I was strictly
-against the Pill then, not because of the false dichotomy between NFP
-and contraception, but because I was worried to mix with my wife’s body
-while we still hoped to have more children, so I am very glad the days
-counting worked for us. What would we do with my wife’s cycle being less
-reliable, I don’t know, and I am very glad I didn’t have to deal with
-it. But certainly the last thing in the world would be to trust NFP.
-
-mcepl 18 days ago
-
-Could you please explain me how from your nonsensical babble on the
-verse about circumcision it follows that my wife should endanger her
-health (she has MS, so further pregnancy could very well lead to another
-attack), why my friend should endanger her marriage (their fourth child
-is severely disabled so taking care of her stretches the family to its
-limits)? Or is all your talk about sanctity of sex just nonsense and you
-really believe that all should lead the only really truly holy celibate
-life as you? I really believe that exactly such irresponsible nonsense
-leads to complete loss of credibility of the Catholics in any discussion
-on the contraception. Yes, I am angry, because of this nonsense we have
-lost all Catholics from the debate about the real issues of life into
-this cesspit of ignorance. Not mentioning that I actually love my wife
-and care about her more than about your infallibility.
-
-Discussion on Echo24.cz 43 comments
-Zajatci virtuality. Hloupý lidovec, Hitler a morální policisté
-mcepl
-mcepl Stanislav Cerman 9 days ago
-
-
-Předpokládám, že to je házení perel sviním, ale mezi panem Kalendou
-a Vašim nadáváním na komunisty vidím několik drobných rozdílů: pan
-Kalenda není jenom tak někdo, ale politik reprezentující stranu, která
-se tváří jako slušná; a jako taková ho má naprosto všechny práva na
-světě vyhodit ho ze svých řad, protože ji dělá ostudu. KDÚ jsem volil
-a pokud by s ním okamžitě nevyrazili futro, tak bych o jejich slušnosti
-velice vážně zapochyboval.
-
-Pokud Vám to nepřipadne správné, tak zkuste veřejně říkat nebo udělat něco co může silně poškodit Vašeho zaměstnavatele. Pak nám sdělte co bude následovat.
-
-Nevím, jestli to myslel vážně (a popravdě řečeno mě to ani moc
-nezajímá), ale jako politik se dal do kšeftu s image a pokud to nevěděl,
-tak v politice nemá co dělat.
-
-Další rozdíl je v tom, že pravděpodobně se mu nestane nic dalšího než že
-odejde z politiky (alespoň doufám, že to udělá, a neskončí u někoho
-jiného), najde si nějaké poctivé zaměstnání, a bude alespoň svobodný
-říkat kde chce co chce.
-
-Gay Marriage and Religious Freedom | R. R. Reno
-
-BTW, I have to also mention this ... I have incredibly strong feeling
-that before we can talk about that speck of the tax non-exemption, there
-is a log all believers should take care of. What about that?
-
-Before we can cry how we have God-given right of being tax exempt (we
-don't), we should probably acknowledge a terrible abuse which does
-happen with this right. I have no clue what to do about it, but it seems
-a bit hypocritical not to mention it.
-
-I am afraid the author puts the question in a wrong order. It should not
-be "Why to support religious non-profit organizations?" (we should
-support them of course), but "Why not to suppport non-religious NGOs?".
-And I don't think he gives a good answer on the latter.
-
----------------
-
-I won't give you chapter and verse, but get yourself into Desert Fathers
-or some more ascetic literature and you'll get that. However, exact
-quarrel about this was not the point of what I wanted to say.
-
-I will happily let you, Catholics, to fight this among yourselves.
-http://lmgtfy.com/?q=humane+vi... and you will find hundreds of opinions
-(including some of them from seemingly quite authoritative authors).
-Having no interest in getting into that debate myself too much, let me
-stand aside.
-
-Besides, somebody here corrected me that my problem is not that much
-papal infallibility as much as infallibility of magisterium.
-
-mcepl LeoXIII 21 days ago
-
-Medicine is denying the will of God, until the middle ages many in
-Christendom agreed with this. How dare you stop somebody from dying when
-the God decided that one should die?
-
-What I am trying to say is that with this silly absolutes, you won't get
-far in the discussion. And, BTW, the argument about stopping a wife from
-conceiving as against the will of God doesn’t seem to me that much
-different.
-
-mcepl Iowa_Lawyer 22 days ago
-
-Thank you for very thoughtful and concise reply. Could you elaborate,
-please? Perhaps I am not as ignorant as you try to make me?
-
-
-I completely agree that behind Humane Vitae lurks a way deeper issue and
-that is the infallibility of pope/magisterium. I am not a Catholic
-myself (and even less I am a theologian), but I believe that the papal
-infallibility is one of the biggest problems for the credibility of the
-Church in the Western world. Anyway, as I said I am not a Catholic so
-the issue of papal infallibility (and confused misunderstanding of the
-distinction between the Universal and Roman-Catholic Church, which I am
-afraid is one of the sources of the papal infallibility) are not much
-interest of me.
-
-What is the interest and what I see as the very evil fruit of Humane
-Vitae is that by pushing the official Catholic doctrine to the
-indefensible corner and discarding any credibility of Catholics to talk
-on the reproductive issue for any non-Catholic, there is now missing
-voice in the discussion. I do believe that abortion is a murder, and
-I do believe (and I did promise in my marriage vows), that accepting
-children God gives us is an inseparable part of the marriage. However,
-neither of these positions is absolute (e.g., even the civil law knows
-that there are situations when killing of other person is legitimate;
-isn't the situation when the life and health of the mother is in danger
-one of these?) and I believe there is need for continuous discussion on
-the topic. I would love to have voice of conservative Catholics
-participate in such discussion. Unfortunately, they are mostly silenced
-because of the lost credibility and inability to formulate any other
-opinion than blindly recite Humane Vitae’s dogmatic statements.
-
-I would be grateful for HV to be one voice in the discussion, but it
-seems obvious that some of its statements turned out to be too extreme
-and they should be moderated or elaborated. Unfortunately they cannot be
-because popes consider themselves to be better than other humans and so
-they cannot say “I am sorry, this was a bit off” about some deeds of
-their predecessors. Enough, I am starting to be too aggressive.  2
-
------------------
-
-Luther Reading Challenge | Sarah Hinlicky Wilson
-
-Just when talking about Luther I have to mention
-https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/039... … one of the five books which changed
-most my life.
-
-
--------------------------
-
-Discussion on Catholic Authenticity 26 comments
-My Libido: A Mosquito
-
-Well, for one “asexual” is for the other one gifted with the gift of
-celibacy (1 Corinthians 7:7-9). And of course, it is just right and
-proper if every Christians follows his/her calling. However, I have
-problems (yes, I am a Protestant) when the calling is exchanged with the
-office. E.g., it is my opinion that John Wesley (the great English
-leader of the Methodist revival in the 18th century) had a gift of
-celibacy, because he came rationally to the conclusion that a pastor
-should give an example to his parishioners and be married (although he
-lived for many many years without a significant problems and his
-ministry schedule could be an example for 1Co 7:32b how he was incapable
-of maitaining a good married relationship). Although I don't think he
-ever did anything immoral, I am also afraid that his marriage was more
-or less disaster. And of course, I am afraid, that the similar mistake
-(just in the other direction) is a case for many Catholic priests.
-
-mcepl captcrisis 2 months ago
-
-Well, Augustine had (especially around sexuality) his own issues, what
-I meant was that Bible is here remarkably egalitarian ... “husband does
-not have authority over his own body”.
-
-mcepl 2 months ago
-
-> I was complaining to God about what a lustful, brutish, inconsiderate
-> lout he was
-
-Yes, I have to admit that being a guy with similar low libido (actually,
-as a former lawyer there are moments when I can very much prefer exactly
-Lex Visigothorum to my wife ;)) I can understand the author's cited
-feelings. Except, the Bible has something else to say about this:
-
-> For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the
-> husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own
-> body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another ... [exceptions
-> follow]
-
-So much for the Paul's supposed preference for celibacy!
-
-Which are exactly the moments, when I would rather throw the Holy Bible
-out of the window. Choosing the obedience to it may be quite difficult
-at times.
-
-----------------
-
-Liberal Limits—and Our Opportunity | Brandon McGinley
-
-Exactly, I am not an American myself (only have a law degree from US
-university), so I may not have facts correct, but from the legal point
-of view the abandonment of the US Constitution (which requires
-a Constitutional Amendment for the large scale changes of constitution)
-started somewhere with FDR ("general welfare" was understood as a right
-to ignore all limits on the executive power; show me in the
-Constitution's enumerated powers place for FCC, SEC, etc.?) or with
-Brown v. Board of Education (however I like its holding, of course, it
-was going around the legislative process as well). Roe v. Wade and
-similar disasters just walked on the path already prepared.
-
-Isn't strange that the last amendment with the serious implications of
-the life of ordinary people was 19th (that's 1920)?
-
-----------------
-
-Discussion on First Things 60 comments
-The Church and the “New Normal” | George Weigel
-
-Does
-
-> But too much of the Church’s clerical and lay leadership lost its
-> nerve after Humanae Vitae.
-
-Do you mean that you are sorry for too much energy spent on defending
-this encyclical? That would be an interesting thought, which I would
-tend to agree with.
-
-----------------
-
-Discussion on First Things 10 comments
-Liberalism and the Church | David T. Koyzis
-
-I don’t think you are quoting Locke in the right context. In his essay
-on understanding he explicitly tried to look at the religion from the
-political/legal point of view, and he expressly didn't want to
-distinguish between Christianity and Islam or other religions, and he
-didn't want to make a theological statement. From such point of view
-I believe it is perfectly legitimate to consider all religions only as
-a civic associations, ignoring their revealed part.
-
-Just to the contrary there is a strange link between political
-liberalism of the nineteenth century and rather personal faith. Lord
-Acton seems to me for example way more involved in his faith than for
-example Burke (as much as I admire his political thoughts), who quite
-passionately disliked all kinds of Christian enthusiasm, because
-religion was for him mainly bearer of tradition (see his comments on
-Methodism).